We continue a special series of materials about the relocation of programmers from Ukraine, Belarus and Russia to other countries. Developers tell you how to find work abroad, move and adapt locally. Our fifth hero is Dima Nikolaenko from Kyiv. In 2014 he moved to Wroclaw, Poland. I am a mathematician by education. For a long time I wanted to find a job along the same path, in science. But in Ukraine they didn’t pay much for this, so at some point I simply took the opportunity to intern at an IT company where a friend worked. Mathematics is good because it teaches you to think, although it does not give you a specific profession. Within a month and a half, I got into programming and started a career as a database developer. A year and a half later, on the fourth attempt, I got almost a senior position as a developer at the outsourcing company Luxoft, and I’ve been working there ever since. At first I developed in development, then it became clear that by coding I could not make the product and the company better, because some higher-level things were missing. Therefore, I soon became a team lead. Then I went to product management, and then to even higher level management. Now I am a program manager for a team of 40 people, but I moved to Poland as a team lead for database development.
Moving
My relocation happened by itself. I generally thought about it, but in the end the company itself invited me to move. In 2014, a revolution occurred in Ukraine, so all the large outsourcing companies began to transport employees abroad: these were requirements from customers and they could not do otherwise. At first they offered a relocation to Romania, but I didn’t want to go there. Then to Bulgaria, when they realized that people didn’t want to go to Romania. Then they suggested Poland, and I decided to try it. I had already been to Poland before, so I understood what the country looked like, I understood that this was Europe, but I didn’t know anything about Wroclaw or other nuances. Various portals wrote about relocation, but at that time it did not help me get an accurate picture, because my forecast was at odds with reality. Moved with my wife. Our position in life is that everything we need should fit into one backpack. We developed this idea into a car: we moved with everything that fit into the car. In 2014, the company's relocation package was very good. Now the company covers the move itself and housing for the first time, and allocates some amount for initial expenses. Previously, they still gave a substantial amount on top. Our housing was paid for the first month. The move was also covered and an additional $600 was given for luggage. It turned out that we were covered for about 3 thousand dollars.
Documentation
The company helped prepare documents for the move. To open a work visa, you need documents about proven work experience. Here in place there is also such a formal document as “Labor Market Analysis”: that is, your position should be in short supply in the Polish labor market according to this document. In Poland, you can get two types of work permits: there is a Blue Card, which is standard throughout Europe, and there is a local card, which is more focused on Poland. Blue Card allows you to work anywhere after a certain period of time: not only in Poland, but also in other countries. Local, accordingly, only in Poland. I received a Blue Card. On site, in Poland, the paperwork process is very lengthy. And although the permit itself and the move can be arranged quickly, then you still have to wait quite a long time for the card itself (you can work without it, but you cannot travel or leave the country). In Poland, in general, there is quite a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of people who want to apply for documents, so the wait for the card itself can last for two years. I waited 7 months in 2014-2015 and 1.5 years in 2017-2018.
Housing
At first we lived in a rented apartment, but after 1.5 years we took out a loan for our home. In Ukraine, everyone does not trust loans, including IT specialists. In Poland you change your attitude towards this. Now I think something like “why haven’t I done this before?” In Poland, they issue mortgage loans for an apartment at 3% per annum, and instead of renting a home and paying a substantial amount for it every month, you can pay exactly the same amount for your apartment. You can take out a loan for 20 years: even if the apartment is not yours, you pay even less money than for rent... This is what I would like to immediately understand when moving.
Work culture
I moved without changing either the company, the team, or the project. We moved with half of the team that worked in Kyiv. There were four Poles for the entire Luxoft in Poland. All the rest were from Ukraine and Russia. Then the situation gradually changed: local projects appeared, for which local developers began to be hired. Now everything is different: the teams in the company are mixed. There are 40 people in my team, everyone speaks Polish, except me and one other colleague. Now we work in the telecom business, and the local market is very suitable for this direction. In Ukraine it was quite difficult to find people who have this profile and are ready to move to Poland. The Polish labor market is quite good at this. There are huge differences in work culture between us and the Poles. The first three years I worked here only in Russian teams, and at that moment nothing changed - they moved and continued to work. We even spoke Russian and did not even begin to speak Polish. The Poles work much more processively than we do. For us, work comes first, and then whatever happens - personal life, family, something else. Working in Europe is more of a means to an end. In addition to the main things (and for them this is family), there is also work on which they spend a certain part of their time. It is very difficult to force Poles to overwork: not because they are bad and don’t want to work, it’s just their culture. I was impressed by how much the working day in Poland is shifted compared to Ukraine. In Kyiv, I always started working at 11-12 o’clock in the afternoon, somewhere around 20:00 I was free, sometimes I worked at night. This is not the case in Poland: if you come to the office at 6 o’clock in the morning, then someone will already be there, at 8 o’clock half the office is already full, and at 16:00 the office is almost empty and you are sitting alone. For the first three years after moving, it was impressive. Then I realized that they work more efficiently, but in less time than we do. There are good and bad sides to this relaxed approach to work. Of course, it is right to have personal time, but on the other hand, this often interferes with business. Many companies that are trying to do support go to India or Eastern Europe, because this cannot be done well in Western Europe. There is a cultural difference between us in the approach to responsibility: if you need to urgently fix a fakap and quickly save the situation, then the Polish teams are not the best, in this we are much stronger.
Polish language
For me, one of the reasons for moving to Poland is that the Ukrainian and Polish languages are similar. Two weeks after moving, I already began to understand Polish, but it took much longer to start speaking. I didn’t speak Polish for about three years because I lived in a huge Ukrainian diaspora with a bunch of friends. Two years ago I started working with Polish teams and thanks to this I began to learn the language very quickly.
Prices and salaries
Prices for food and pubs here are similar to those in Kyiv. Things, including cars, are a little cheaper. All services and everything related to human manual labor are more expensive. Renting housing is much more expensive (the price for a two-room apartment with utilities per month is about 700-800 euros). But it is worth noting that the apartments are much better. There is a very big misconception that you need to leave Ukraine to earn more. In the IT field, this is exactly the opposite, although for some reason many people do not know this. In Ukraine, the net profit per month is much higher; for other countries the trend is something like this: the further to the west, the less net profit from wages. This is due to sharply rising prices. In Poland, prices are relatively low. In Poland, the salaries of IT specialists are on average the same as in Ukraine, but only here they are also charged about 30% tax. As a result, in Poland the salaries of IT specialists are lower.
There are different tax rates that depend on profits. The tax is divided into two parts: the first part, about 14%, goes to social contributions, the second part is income tax, which depends on the amount. If the income is up to 20 thousand dollars a year, then the person pays 15% income tax, but if the income is more, then the person pays 32%. As a result, the average tax for the year for IT specialists is about 31-32%. In Poland, there is a legal loophole for tech workers that allows them to pay less tax: you can get a discount on creative work and reduce your income tax by up to 21%. As a manager, I pay on average 32-33% per year. In Poland there is such a form of hiring under a B2B contract - this is a form of cooperation very close to our private entrepreneurship. People working in B2B pay low tax, about 12% per year. But because of this, they lose a lot of things: health insurance, paid vacations, and sick leave. You can work in B2B if you are a good technical specialist who can easily find a new job. If there are layoffs somewhere, the first to be cut are the B2B ones, because they are not employees of the company. If a person is an employee of a company, then he is always warned about dismissal in advance (even 3 months in advance) and given a certain amount on top. If a person has worked for a long time, then this is 2 salaries on top. This is a lot of protection, and B2B does not have this at all. What are taxes spent on? For example, on the roads. Since I am a traveler, roads are very important to me; on weekends, in a couple of hours I can get to Berlin, or Dresden, or Prague, or the mountains. I really feel the quality of the roads. You can see from the streets where taxes are being invested: everything is landscaped, everything is being repaired, many parks are open, bicycle paths are being built all the time. Some part of the tax goes to the city plan, and on the Internet you can track where exactly it goes. You can even vote on how the tax will be used. There is, of course, a minus: our taxes pay for the program of the pro-government party, which everyone here hates. She is extremely populist in her politics. Basically, actions and reforms are aimed at the masses, and therefore are not very supported by intelligent society and business. The main negative trends in European politics now: populism, anti-globalism, nationalism, problems of migrants and the formation of attitudes towards them, anti-economic reforms for the sake of winning points in election campaigns.
Medicine
Officially registered employees are provided with health insurance, but those working under a B2B contract are not. As throughout Europe, if you are dying, then here they will do everything in the best possible way with the best quality. But if a serious case is far away and you just need a routine examination or vision test, dentistry, and a cast, then they won’t even lift a finger. In such cases, you have to make an appointment 2 months in advance at an inconvenient time on an inconvenient day - and this is even in the best clinics. As for the quality of equipment and drugs, everything here is modern and at a high level. And it’s worth noting that you can’t buy antibiotics or serious painkillers at the pharmacy without a prescription.
Wroclaw
Wroclaw combines a big city, but without a clutter of high-rise buildings - and therefore it is cozy here. There are short distances everywhere (and convenient transport makes them even shorter), there is no metropolitan bustle. The city is beautiful, cozy, with a lot of interesting things around. The geographical location of Wroclaw is definitely better than any other city in Poland, it is located next to the Czech Republic, Germany and the mountains. The business is growing by leaps and bounds. There are already many large companies with developed delivery centers in the city. These are Luxoft, Epam, UBS, Credit Suisse, Data Art, Cogniance, Softserve, Nokia, DXC, Capgemini, IBM, EY, BNY Mellon and many others. There are many shopping centers, cinemas (even IMAX), IKEA. In terms of scale, it is certainly not a capital, but for Europe Wroclaw is a very large city.
Communication
I made one friend from Poland, but in general, in terms of his worldview, he is closer to Ukraine than to Poland. The Poles are very close to us culturally, you can always make friends with them based on your interests, but they have a slightly different attitude towards friendship, and their values differ from ours: they place family at a higher level than Ukrainians. For example, New Year or another holiday in Ukraine is a time when I can go somewhere with friends and have a great time. But here on holidays Poles can go to visit their grandmother, which is what they actually do. They have family values at a high level, and that's something I don't really relate to. I think that I do not develop friendly relations with the Poles precisely because of this.
Leisure
For me, one of the reasons for moving was the opportunity to travel around Europe. And here I have been doing this for all 7 years. Of all the countries in Europe, I have not been only to Denmark. The closest warm sea by car is Croatia, Italy, Albania. Excellent ski resorts in neighboring Jasny (5 hours by car), Austria (10 hours by car). My second hobby is snowboarding and mountain tourism. But there is not enough mountain romance here, because Europe is densely populated and has too good an infrastructure. In the Alps you can drive and walk to places that, for example, only a few people in Russia can reach. You can often find queues for one or another mountain. Everything here is wild, but in Europe there are a lot of regulations: you can’t stand with tents, you can’t light fires. What I've noticed over the last couple of years in Wroclaw is that there are mountains, the Sudeten Mountains, two hours away from the city. My friends and I go out on Saturday, ride boards all day in the morning and go back in the evening. If I never leave here again, it will be because of the mountains. I knew that there were Tatras (Slovakian mountains) nearby, that you could go to the Austrian Alps, but I didn’t know about the Sudetes.
Why do people come back
When we all moved to Wroclaw, our team was very large. Since I was already in management at that time, I conducted research and looked at how many people were returning to Ukraine and why. The statistics were something like this: of all those who moved during that wave, approximately 15-20% returned back in the following years. The main reasons are money (for some reason people thought that they earned more in Europe), in Kyiv the salary is objectively higher. The second reason is when a person moved on his own, without a wife, without a girlfriend, or without very good friends. Some found it very difficult to integrate because of this. Some found a new environment, others found it more difficult and returned. Also one of the reasons is that the partner (wife or husband) had nothing to do in Poland. Some other people returned for personal reasons, such as the death of someone close to them. And several people returned for the reason “why not?”
conclusions
I plan my life for no more than 3 years (during such a period so many things change that it is simply impossible to plan further, the forecast is too imprecise). I’m definitely here for the next 3 years. Having traveled around the world and having friends here and there, I came to the conclusion that any location has its pros and cons, and they depend only on personal preferences, but not on some general “this location is objectively better.” Where is it better: in Ukraine or in Poland? Nowhere is better. It was such a revelation: in Poland it’s no better and no worse, just different. If I return to Kyiv, it will not be because it is better there, but for some other reasons. In Poland it’s definitely worse in terms of money, worse in terms of losing connections with friends and relatives - this is partly lacking here. But there are many other things here: confidence in the future, a comfortable life. My conclusions:
Abroad is no better and no worse. It's different abroad.
Disadvantages: money, friends/family, integration into society - better in your home country.
Pros: everyday life, travel, confidence in the future, travel - better in Europe.
I was impressed by how much the working day in Poland is shifted compared to Ukraine. In Kyiv, I always started working at 11-12 o’clock in the afternoon, somewhere around 20:00 I was free, sometimes I worked at night. This is not the case in Poland: if you come to the office at 6 o’clock in the morning, then someone will already be there, at 8 o’clock half the office is already full, and at 16:00 the office is almost empty and you are sitting alone. For the first three years after moving, it was impressive. Then I realized that they work more efficiently, but in less time than we do. There are good and bad sides to this relaxed approach to work. Of course, it is right to have personal time, but on the other hand, this often interferes with business. Many companies that are trying to do support go to India or Eastern Europe, because this cannot be done well in Western Europe. There is a cultural difference between us in the approach to responsibility: if you need to urgently fix a fakap and quickly save the situation, then the Polish teams are not the best, in this we are much stronger.
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